An Interview With Chad Silverstein
One of my best unconventional decisions was to work one-on-one with three different business coaches, rather than just one. Each coach brought a specific perspective, and the combination reshaped my approach to leadership, management, and business in general.
In the world of business and within every industry, there are forward-thinking leaders who go against the status quo and find success. Their courage to take risks, embrace innovation, and inspire collaboration separates them from the competition. Until 2002, Apple’s famous slogan was “Think Different.” This attitude likely helped them become one of the most successful organizations in history. This interview series aims to showcase visionary leaders and their “status quo-breaking” approach to doing business. As part of this series, I had the pleasure of interviewing Jason Barnard.
Jason Barnard is an entrepreneur, author, keynote speaker, and CEO of Kalicube, a digital marketing agency based in France and the USA. He specializes in online brand management and is known for his superhero skills, which include his ability to reshape how Google and AI present brands online.
Why is this important, I hear you ask? Google and AI are defining how brands appear online — with or without their input.
Jason helps brands wrest control from the machines by building Knowledge Panels with the “Wow” factor to reach the right people, stand out in a crowded market, control their narrative, and win more business. This isn’t just optimization; it’s a strategic manipulation of digital perceptions. He’s been working on Google since the year it was incorporated, and he has been successfully manipulating Google from day one.
Google said they “… don’t know anyone externally who has as much insight into how [Knowledge Panels] work.”
Jason Barnard - Entrepreneur - The Future of Digital Search
Thank you so much for doing this with us! Our readers would love to get to know you a bit better. Can you tell us your “Origin Story”? Can you tell us the story of how you grew up?
I had a very lonely childhood on a farm in the North Yorkshire Moors in England. The nearest neighbor was a mile away, and the nearest transport a three-mile walk. So, there was always a sense of isolation and loneliness, which was exacerbated when my mother left home when I was four years old. This left my father to raise my two older sisters and me singlehandedly. I greatly respect my father, who raised a young family while building his own career. But that meant his parental availability was limited for all of us. Like me, my sisters were small children, and I spent most of my childhood alone.
But this forged my personality. Those feelings of abandonment and isolation motivated me to become hyper-independent! I found innumerable ways to entertain myself by creating challenges through solo games, ambitious goals, and building things from nothing. And I taught myself to have a patient reliance on my own motivation — a motivation to build without support, the imagination to see a goal others cannot see, and the patience to get there with micro steps.
In short, that isolation I experienced throughout my childhood forged the self-reliance that has been key to my entrepreneurial journey in adulthood.
Can you give us a glimpse into your journey into this industry and share a story about one of the most significant challenges you faced when you first started out? How did you end up resolving that challenge?
It’s ironic, but Google nearly destroyed my career! This was back in 2013, when I pivoted from being a voiceover artist to an SEO consultant. I had been the voice of a blue dog in a cartoon series, and when potential SEO clients googled my name to check out my bone fides, the first, second, and third search results said, “Jason Barnard is a cartoon blue dog called Boowa”.
By focusing on my prior role when people searched for me, Google’s search results ruined my credibility — costing me hundreds of thousands of dollars in the process! I quickly came to understand that Google’s portrayal of my online identity would be crucial for my sales and future business success. Google was my digital business card, whether I liked it or not. So, I set out to intentionally redesign that business card.
My SEO experience told me that the answer was to strategically manage online information about myself, so that Google’s focus would shift from my voiceover career to my new career in SEO. I took the time to teach Google’s algorithms how I wanted to be represented and, within a few months, the search results for my name presented me as a leading authority in SEO.
Algorithms have no opinions. So, I found that by altering Google’s perception of what is important in my career, I could change its representation of me. Now, the algorithms trust me so much that I can pretty much say anything about myself, and the results will represent me in that way.
The same principle applies today as it did back then. Every big tech company has built algorithms and systems that create their version of truth from fragmented data they selectively collect from the web. People primarily use Google to research potential business partners, but increasingly they’ll use ChatGPT, Alexa, Siri, Google Gemini, and Microsoft Bing as well.
What I learned from all this is that I can control my brand narrative. Meanwhile, most entrepreneurs “work” on their brands through social media, thought leadership, and public speaking, but they don’t control them — the algorithms do.
When I realized the immense power that search engines have over what people see when they google a name, I started my third company, Kalicube. With Kalicube, my ultimate goal is to help others control how these machines represent their personal brand.
Who has been the most significant influence in your business journey, and what is the most significant lesson or insight you have learned from them?
The most significant influence in my business journey was a business partner who had differing views on monetization. Despite our differences, I remained committed to balancing profit and passion, rather than maximizing revenue per client. Through this experience, I learned that staying true to my mission while ensuring financial sustainability was imperative for me.
This lesson has shaped our strategy at Kalicube. We primarily serve CEOs and founders of seven-figure+ companies, who recognize their personal brand as a revenue-generating asset. But our focus allows us to allocate 40% of our marketing budget to creating free resources that help brands at all levels control their online brand visibility.
For me, we will have succeeded in our mission as long as we are able to balance our pursuit of both ambitions with maintaining a safe environment for the team and making enough profit for stability.
Can you share a story about something specific that happened early on that you would consider a failure but ended up being a blessing in disguise or ended up being one of the most valuable lessons you had to learn on your own?
Early in my career, two significant setbacks became blessings in disguise. The first was with my band, The Barking Dogs. We played punk-folk music and naively believed that we were destined to play in stadiums and sell millions of albums. So, you can imagine our surprise when no record label wanted to sign us or book us for tours.
Still, I am nothing if not stubborn, determined, and optimistic. So, in 1991, I created my own company, WTPL Music, to release our records and organize our tours. Through WTPL Music, The Barking Dogs played 660 live gigs to over 100,000 people and sold 40,000 albums over the next eight years. Not quite the stadiums and platinum discs I had imagined, but a success nonetheless.
Another, rather different setback came about through a children’s cartoon series called Boowa and Kwala that my wife and I created. We pitched it around but couldn’t deal. Rather than give up on the idea, I founded UpToTen Ltd in 2000 and launched the characters on the web. It was a risk, but the company was profitable and the characters became a huge success! They amassed one billion pageviews in 2007 and ended up with a TV series that was co-produced by ITV International and aired in 25 countries.
These experiences taught me invaluable lessons about following my passion, believing in what I’m doing, and being persistent and patient as I built a profitable business model based on passion projects. Kalicube is a product of the same approach. Each failure pushed me towards entrepreneurship and ultimately led me to success by allowing me to make a living from what I love doing most.
So remember: sometimes failures are just stepping stones towards something greater. You just have to stay committed and keep pushing forward.
Leading anything is hard, especially when grappling with a difficult situation where it seems that no matter what you decide, it will have a negative impact on those around you. Can you share a story about a situation you faced that required making a “hard call” or a tough decision between two paths?
We made a hard call at Kalicube in 2024 to stop offering our Kalicube Pro SaaS product to digital marketing agencies. Kalicube Pro houses our proprietary algorithms and all the data we’ve collected from Google since 2015, allowing us to analyze and chart the most effective digital marketing strategies for refocusing algorithm attention on a brand.
When we launched Kalicube Pro as a SaaS product, it was to help digital marketing agencies control their clients’ brands. We invested significant resources in the launch, and the SaaS was successful. Still, it quickly became clear that the agencies needed more specialist knowledge to use the platform as effectively as our own team. As a result, they couldn’t leverage its total value.
I had to make a tough decision: either invest Kalicube’s human resources in training staff at other agencies and try to scale the SaaS offering, or assign those team members to serve our growing client base of CEOs and business leaders. There were strong arguments for each approach, and everyone, from the team at Kalicube to our client agencies and other external stakeholders, offered their opinions. For me, that made the decision to cut the product doubly difficult.
Internally, our final decision did cause some concern, because it meant we lost a significant income stream. However, Team Kalicube got behind my choice and worked hard to more than make up for that loss. And, in the end, the decision was correct — revenues and profits are increasing significantly faster than ever in Kalicube’s history!
Let’s shift our focus to the core of this interview about ‘Successful Rule Breakers’. Why did you decide to “break the rules”? Early on, did you identify a particular problem or issue in how businesses in your industry generally operated? What specifically compelled you to address this and want to do things differently? Please share how you went about implementing those changes and the impact they had.
I decided to break the rules because, in 2012, I saw a glaring problem in how businesses and people were being represented on Google Search.
I was losing money because of a poorly optimized search result for my own name. Looking back, it was laughable that I was marketing myself as an SEO Consultant when, according to Google, I was a voiceover artist for a cartoon dog. And I wasn’t the only one in this position. People change their names, receive negative press, and change career direction frequently. But when the machines dictate the narrative, gaining traction can be tough.
I knew I had to do things differently. Thanks to my Economics degree from Liverpool John Moores University, which included modules on data and statistical analysis, plus my knowledge of Google’s algorithms, I was able to extract key data from Google’s Knowledge Graph. From there, I was able to analyze how I could educate and manipulate the algorithms so they represented brands in the way they wanted to be represented. This massive data bank was the foundation for our SaaS platform, Kalicube Pro and, aside from Google, no one has more data about intentional brand shaping than Kalicube.
What started as a personal project to fix my Google Business Card evolved into a simple three-step process called The Kalicube Process. I’m proud to say that it’s an approach that has proven to be highly effective at controlling how AI machines understand, perceive, and represent people and companies.
Through Kalicube, I have been able to improve the representation of my personal brand and generate over a million dollars (and counting!), whilst also helping other companies and business leaders do the same.
In the ever-changing business landscape, how exactly do you decide when to adhere to industry norms versus “breaking the rules” and forging your own way? Can you share an example?
When deciding whether to break the rules or stick to industry norms, it’s important to understand which elements are foundational and cannot be changed, and which are open to disruption. Some industry norms are norms for a reason — because they are deeply ingrained. So, no matter how much you want to change them, it’s better to contribute to or add to them rather than attempt to replace them.
For example, back when I started Kalicube, managing personal brands online meant having to focus entirely on optimizing pages for search engines. However, in 2015, Google started to understand the significance not just of the content but the “who” behind the content — the person or company creating and publishing it. This effectively added two layers to Search Engine Optimization: optimizing the content creator and the content publisher, in addition to the content itself.
I remember that, when I flagged this innovation to colleagues, the industry norms were so ingrained that no one really understood the implications. So, at Kalicube, we quietly trained our algorithms to provide verifiable proof and forge our own way.
Way back in 2015, that wasn’t the obvious thing to do. Looking back, though, there is no denying that that shift has been instrumental in Google’s evolution, and in how all major AI engines deliver assistive search results. Today, every single major platform, including ChatGPT, Google Gemini, Alexa, and Siri, all prioritize content from companies and people they know, like, and trust.
So, the lesson here is to evolve. Without evolution, we at Kalicube might never have understood that, when managing the narrative of personal or corporate brands online, it remains essential to continue creating valuable content. But to truly stand out, you need to work on enhancing the AI’s algorithmic understanding of the person and company behind that content.
Breaking the rules is never about discarding what’s already in place and trying to change the entire game. Instead, it’s about finding opportunities to build on existing foundations with an innovative methodology, system, or tool.
What guidance or insight can you offer to new entrepreneurs trying to follow existing and accepted industry norms while at the same time trying to differentiate themselves in the marketplace?
As an entrepreneur, I’ve learned that innovating existing and accepted industry norms will always differentiate an entrepreneur from the marketplace.
I entered the saturated brand management market without focusing on logos, color palettes, or catchy taglines. Instead, I focused on what I learned by building my Google Business Card, and went on to use our algorithms and Kalicube Pro data to intentionally reshape the algorithms that control online brand representation. The process follows existing and accepted industry norms because it is a digital marketing strategy. But, crucially, it is a data-informed strategy, and one that gives brands control of their own narrative and Google Business Cards in the fastest, most efficient, and most effective way possible.
There are other ways you can differentiate yourself. I, for example, always wore a red shirt whenever I appeared on stage or online. I have 10 identical red shirts, and 80% of Kalicube’s business comes from the red shirt. We’ve produced so much content about controlling your brand online, and the red shirt appears everywhere people search for services we offer. When I’m at a conference, people approach me because they recognize the red shirt!
Overall, though, if you’re looking to move a market somewhere new and stand out while respecting existing norms, then start by making incremental changes within the established framework. This gradual approach will allow you to innovate without alienating your audience or stakeholders. Over time, as you build traction and credibility, you can gradually introduce more radical ideas and strategies. Even if you’re on the right track, remember that changing the game takes time. So, be pragmatic and patient.
Here is the main question of our interview. To make an impact, you have to champion change, get creative, and take risks. Please think back about the decisions you’ve made that have helped your business get to where it is today, and share your top 5 strategies or decisions that helped you succeed by doing things differently. If you can, please share a story or example for each.
1. One of my best unconventional decisions was to work one-on-one with three different business coaches, rather than just one. Each coach brought a specific perspective, and the combination reshaped my approach to leadership, management, and business in general.
The first coach, Mads Singers from Denmark, taught me pragmatic management by giving me the keys to delegating effectively and building a well-structured team. His insights have been invaluable, and have shaped my approach to operational efficiency within Kalicube.
The second coach, Stephen Lock from the United Kingdom, showed me how to manage relationships more effectively. Through his philosophical approach, I came to better understand the dynamics of interpersonal relationships within an organization and beyond, which in turn helped me to create a work environment where everyone communicates openly and supports each other.
Lastly, Itamar Marani, from Israel, focused on my psychology. He showed me how to accelerate my business by taking my emotional handbrake off. I can now identify and set aside the emotional barriers holding my business back. As a result, making the right pragmatic decisions for the company has become significantly easier for me.
Working with these three inspirational coaches has brought innumerable benefits, some of the biggest of which include:
- My department heads are more confident, autonomous, and productive, thanks to the insights I’ve been able to pass on.
- I now have more time to focus on roles that bring the most value to the company, like promoting our message, engaging with the right prospective clients, helping my team work more effectively, and making strategic decisions today that will benefit the company’s future.
- Kalicube’s revenue growth in 2024 has been higher than any previous year-on-year increase — and the year isn’t even over yet!
2. A creative pivot I am particularly proud of is one that took me away from the norms of the SEO industry. This came about when, in 2015, I started approaching Google’s algorithms from a new perspective.
Instead of viewing them as the simplistic, rules-based, rigid, unchangeable systems they previously were, I recognized that they are constantly evolving and in fact designed to learn. This shift in mindset allowed me to see that educating these algorithms is the key to the future of optimizing marketing materials.
Thanks to my realization, I went on to build Kalicube Pro as a means of capturing relevant data. This is the data we use to create digital marketing strategies that patiently guide the algorithms to understand who we are, what we offer, and why we are credible, meaning that brands no longer have to be at the mercy of algorithms.
3. Another pivotal decision that contributed significantly to our success was hiring a team with no experience in digital marketing or SEO. I know how that might sound to some, but it meant that the team we hired had no preconceived ideas about traditional digital marketing and SEO practices. That meant they would be more likely to embrace my innovative strategies, all of which are aimed at educating AI algorithms.
Traditional SEO techniques often fall short when altering how AI algorithms perceive people and corporations. By building a team from scratch, I could teach them this entirely new skill set without biases or outdated methods interfering with their learning process. It was a risky strategy but one that has certainly paid off, because the team implements the strategies to the letter, giving very reliable results.
For instance, one of our recent projects involved repositioning Jonathan Cronstedt’s personal brand from “President of Kajabi” to “Investor.” Jonathan now has a stunning brand, SERP (Google Business Card), a stable knowledge panel, and recognition from AI search engines, which accurately reflect his new role and expertise.
4. When I started Kalicube, I took a significant personal risk. I invested my creativity, over ten thousand hours of my time, and substantial financial resources into gathering billions of data points from Google and building the algorithms that drive Kalicube Pro, our proprietary brand management software platform.
Initially, the market for proactive brand management services was slow to develop, and Kalicube’s client base and revenues grew too slowly to justify my investments. But still, I persevered, and I’m very glad I did. Today, Kalicube Pro leverages billions of data points to craft laser-focused digital marketing strategies. These strategies enable business leaders to dominate their niche, be recognized as thought leaders, and control their personal brand narrative. In short, we help business leaders build a strong online presence that they can actually control.
The payoff is that the dataset and technology we’ve built up over the last nine years is unique and unreplicable, giving us an unassailable edge in the industry.
5. I also made the decision early on to treat my personal brand as a core business asset for Kalicube. In other words, I chose to walk the walk, to demonstrate that the founder’s personal brand is a critical business asset worthy of investment. This has given Kalicube a huge advantage.
To start with, I focused on clarifying my personal brand to emphasize entrepreneurship. Next, I established myself as a thought leader on optimization for AI search and assistive technologies. Then, to increase the visibility of my personal brand, I created videos, appeared on podcasts, wrote articles for authoritative media outlets, and delivered keynote speeches at leading conferences (wearing my red shirt).
Because prospective clients see the quality of my personal brand and the consistency of my narrative at every touchpoint, and they recognize how accurately AI search and assistive engines represent me, our prospective clients feel reassured that they’re in the best hands.
As a leader, how do you rally others to align with your vision? , how do you identify those who may not be fully committed or even silently sabotaging or undermining your efforts? What steps do you take to address these situations?
I have only appointed leaders who share my approach, ethics, and outlook. Each realm lead has full responsibility and authority regarding recruitment and team management. Because they all share my approach, ethics, and outlook, the vision filters through the company organically.
Our Chief Team Officer reports directly to the CEO, so every team member knows she has authority and meaningful influence at the top. This means we can identify any potential issues early, move relevant people to more suitable positions in the company, or let them go if necessary.
Imagine we’re sitting down together two years from now, looking back at your company’s last 24 months. What specific accomplishments would have to happen for you to be happy with your progress?
The biggest thing for me would be if my strategies (specifically The Kalicube Process) became the industry standard for managing brand narrative in AI search and assistive engines. That would be the main indicator of our success as an organization.
I’d also be very happy if, in two years’ time, hundreds of thousands of people had used our free resources to help them control their brand narrative. I want our clients to feel truly reassured, comfortable, and confident that, with our help and support, they have self-determination in the scary world of AI.
Finally, I’d love it if we could grow the team from 22 to 60 with the same leadership team we have today.
You are a person of enormous influence. If you could inspire a movement that would bring the most amount of good to the most amount of people, what would that be? You never know what your idea can trigger. 🙂
My focus today is self-determination in a world of AI. With the recent surge in AI technologies like ChatGPT, Perplexity, and Google Gemini, my mission to help people control how AI perceives, understands, and represents us has the potential to bring an immense amount of good to vast numbers of people. It’s also a mission that’s only going to become more essential. As we approach singularity (when machines surpass human intelligence), the fundamental question of how these machines understand us needs to be addressed.
Through Kalicube, we have a unique opportunity to initiate this movement. We can help millions by sharing our strategies and techniques for educating AI algorithms about personal or brand identities. By doing so, everyone can ensure that these powerful technologies represent them accurately and fairly.
This movement is not just about business; it’s about empowering individuals worldwide to take control of their digital identities. That’s why, at Kalicube, we freely share our successful methods with everyone. We believe everyone should be able to influence how AI algorithms understand and represent them.
In an age dominated by artificial intelligence, I believe that this initiative can help us to ensure fairness, accuracy, and self-determination.
How can our readers continue to follow you or your company online?
Start by googling my name, “Jason Barnard”. That search result is my Google Business Card, and you will learn all about me, my career, what I offer, and my credentials. From there, you will have a choice in how you want to engage with me: by learning about me on my personal website (first result), working with me by visiting my company website (second result), reading my articles on Forbes and Search Engine Lead, engaging with me on Twitter and LinkedIn, and much more. Or you can ask ChatGPT for information:
Thank you so much for sharing all of these insights. We wish you continued success and good health!
About the Interviewer: Chad Silverstein is a seasoned entrepreneur and Thought Leader with over 25 years of business experience. He has founded, operated, and exited multiple companies and now builds into a handful of high impact CEOs. Chad has launched multiple online communities, including a recent leadership development platform, and serves as a strategic advisor for Authority Magazine’s thought-leader incubator program.
To learn more and connect with Chad visit: chadsilverstein.io
Successful Rule Breakers: Jason Barnard Of Kalicube On How To Succeed By Doing Things Differently was originally published in Authority Magazine on Medium, where people are continuing the conversation by highlighting and responding to this story.